Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to the Uncomplicated Perimenopause Podcast. I'm Kate Grosvenor, your friendly perimenopause expert and life coach.

Speaker 2: 0:15

And I'm Gabriella Kate's daughter, representing all the women who are nowhere near perimenopause but want to understand it better.

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Whether you're just starting your perimenopause journey deep into it, whether you're just starting your perimenopause journey deep into it or you're a loved one trying to support someone who is we've got you covered.

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We'll be answering all of your burning questions, exploring the ups and downs, and sharing expert advice and personal insights.

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So grab a cup of tea, get comfy and let's dive into the wonderful. Get comfy and let's dive into the wonderful, sometimes wild, world of perimenopause together.

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And remember, no matter where you are on your journey, you are not alone.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Welcome to the Uncomplicated Perimenopause. Hello, my darlings, and welcome to episode 5 of season 2 of the uncomplicated perimenopause podcast. My name is kate gravener and I'm a perimenopause expert and life coach, and I'm gabriela grover, kate's daughter, learning with you all we actually got through that one without me stumbling over something.

Speaker 1: 1:15

there must be something in the air today. You're very excited today, aren't you? It's christmas eve, it's christmas. No, it's christmas eve, eve. That's what I said. Oh, did you? Yes, duh not paying attention, so you're more excited than an excited thing, aren't you? Yeah, because you've been rapping with me. Very excited she is. She's like a big kid. So I think you've always been excited for Christmas, though. It's quite sweet actually.

Speaker 1: 1:41

Because you've always made it special and having little siblings as well, and they're not so little, but having 17 and 19, yeah yeah I'm excited and we have my cousin visiting as well.

Speaker 2: 1:50

Yes, tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 1:52

Yeah, it's cute. We do do big christmases, though we don't have. Well, sometimes we have lots of people, but we generally do family christmases. But we, it's a big thing in our house we do. We do do the christmas. Yeah, it's nice looking for, it's nice and we're ready. Finally, because we weren't ready at all. You weren't ready, well, okay, but we had a few medical emergencies recently. Yeah, it's been a bit judging, been a bit traumatic, um, but yeah, but then we all caught off. We seemed to catch up all of a sudden, didn't we? And now we're all, suddenly all ready.

Speaker 1: 2:26

It's the productive weekend we had. Yes, we did Not lots of rest. Oh no, Saturday was nice.

Speaker 2: 2:31

It's quite relaxing. Saturday was lovely, chilled, I love.

Speaker 1: 2:33

Saturday. I think it's lovely and I think we need to more often. Just women in general lie like a vegetable and do nothing. It's good, I like it. It's very, very cool, because tomorrow is going to be bonkers and and uh, christmas day will be bonkers and then I intend to do sweet fa on boxing day.

Speaker 2: 2:52

I think that should be a law like actually a legislation written about it I know and I've learned in my business now not to work.

Speaker 1: 3:00

Yeah, because there was. There was times when I first started my business, businesses to that I would start working in on Boxing Day.

Speaker 2: 3:08

I'll police you if you try.

Speaker 1: 3:09

I'm not. I intend to do absolutely nothing. You heard it here, yes, and we've got something exciting coming and I go wait, it's really exciting. I'm like it's Giddy Kipper. Who, giddy Kipper? There's a fish called a kipper and I'm like a giddykipper, okay, okay, hey-ho. She's looking like I've gone out now All groovy, so I'll quickly move on. What is the question, my darling?

Speaker 2: 3:34

This question is from Carla, who lives in the US Ooh, not sure where. So she says I'm in my late 40s and I've started noticing changes in my skin, hair and energy levels. Okay, these make her feel like she's aging overnight. Bless you, yeah. On top of that, being in perimenopause seems to be speeding everything up, like my body is changing faster than I'm ready for it to change. Yeah, yeah, it's hard not to feel self-conscious, especially when I look at younger women and think about how different I now feel. Oh, bless, yeah, yeah. How do I embrace aging during premenopause and feel confident in the new chapter that I'm entering in my life.

Speaker 1: 4:12

Yeah, yeah, a lot to unwrap. So skin, hair, nails, energy, energy, not nails, just skin, skin, hair, energy. Looking at younger women, oh, bless you, okay. So, first of all for Carla, thank you so much for your heartfelt question. My gosh, I get this one. It hits because, as I always say, you're not alone in feeling this way. So many women she say she's late 40s, my darling, I mean so many women in their late 40s, during perimenopause, experience these changes and emotions. It is so completely natural to feel a mix of uncertainty and self-conscious as we, just as we, navigate this, because it's really tough. You can't imagine how you're going to feel as you're sitting here in your kind of like mid-20s. You can't imagine how you feel because I mean, obviously I'm 50, yeah, I'm going into 50, 51 ish, but you know, so I do. I do my birth, you know this. I do my birthday per year. In 2025, I'm going to be 51 all year.

Speaker 1: 5:16

Okay, I'll be 25 all year well, no, I just do it per year because it's just easier. So if somebody says to me in 2025, how old are you, I'll be 51 yeah, because I just can't be asked.

Speaker 2: 5:24

I might as well start, since our birthdays are five days apart.

Speaker 1: 5:27

Yes, I haven't had a proper birthday in the last 25 years, her birthday comes first same week. So it's all been about you for the last quarter of a century I am great at making your birthday you are great, but since obviously I've been focused on yeah, you focus on me yeah but you're're you're good at it.

Speaker 1: 5:44

I'm not pointing fingers, honestly, but I yeah it's. It is really tough to let go and not let yourself go it's not what we're talking about but to just grieve the changes you're noticing whilst find a way to embrace the newness of what's going on. It's a new season and making peace with it is the way to go. So let's talk about the physical changes first. So you mentioned skin, hair and energy levels, right. So these are all directly linked to the hormonal changes. So, for example, declining oestrogen leads to dry skin, hair thinning and dips in energy. So these changes can feel very sudden. They're not very sudden, but once you've noticed them, they feel very sudden.

Speaker 1: 6:34

So we have there's something in in our brain called the reticular activating system the res and um, basically it's a bit like a sparkly hairnet and it goes over your brain and it's like the bouncer for your brain. So it decides what you focus on and what you don't focus on. So your brain processes more information in a 24-hour period than about three years of mobile phone data. So your brain, basically, if I said to you right now, gabriella, how do your feet feel? Do they feel warm? Do they feel cold? How do your socks feel? Do they feel fluffy? Do they feel silky? How do?

Speaker 2: 7:09

they feel my toes are a bit cold, yeah, but my feet?

Speaker 1: 7:13

are overall quite warm. Did you remember how you were you paying attention to how your feet felt before I asked you? No, right, but your, but your brain knew how your feet felt because as soon as I asked you you could recall it, you could bring it into your conscious. And your brain knows what the smell in the room is. Your brain knows how comfortable your bottom is. Your brain knows as well, yeah, so your brain's pumping your heart. Your brain's moving your lungs so that you get oxygen. Your brain knows, you know, if you, what you're digesting. Your brain knows what you can hear outside. Your brain's processing what I'm saying to your brains. I mean, if you're adhd, your brain's having three of the conversations. Your brain knows what the smell is around you. Your brain knows, remembers what, what you need to do tomorrow. So your brain's processing all this information all the time. But if it gave it all to you, yeah, in one go your brain would pop. It's too much.

Speaker 1: 8:00

So your brain gives you four bits of information. It, the four bits of things go straight through the bouncer. So the bouncer's like your name's not in. You know you're not committing right. And that's the reticular activating system, the res. So four things break through your bouncer. If somebody calls your name, yeah, you whip around. So we call it the cocktail party effect. So if you're in a cocktail party and someone shouts Gabby, you turn straight away. Okay, that's one.

Speaker 1: 8:26

The second thing is if you or someone that you love is in danger. So if you heard a crash right now, if we heard a crash on the stairs, we would stop the podcast and run to see, because it would be one of your sisters. So we wouldn't care what was going on here in the studio, we would run and sort that out. Or if you're walking down the street and something fell, you would miraculously dodge out the way because your brain is aware of what's going on upstairs, downstairs, to the side, to the left. You're not paying attention, but your brain is incredible things, brains, aren't they? The third thing is if your partner wants sex. Whoa, where did where? Okay, it changed. I'm just saying so.

Speaker 1: 9:04

If your, if your partner's feeling horny, we tune into it I'm just saying, I've never heard you say that word okay, you're a grown-up, we're talking, but if your partner's feeling horny and wants to have sex, you know, as soon as he walks into the room, you know, yeah, well, he or she I'm just talking about your partner, but I'm saying for the wider audience he or she walks into the room, you would know if they're in a sexual mood, because you'd pick up on the pheromones, because we are biological beings and and men would pick up the same yes, they, I mean that. Okay, women, yes, I'm sure they would. I don't know, I don't speak man, but I'm sure they would, okay. And the fourth thing is whatever you tell your brain is important is what your brain picks up on, and this is how advertising works. So if you thought about, if you and I were having conversation about red jumpers we were having conversation about red jumpers. So if you and I were talking about red jumpers oh, this red jumper and that red jumper, and oh, this is so important, we love the red jumpers and over a jumper, so important and you would go into marcus and spencer's and see nothing but red jumpers. They would be everywhere. And then you go into john lewis oh, my god, there's red jumpers everywhere. And then you'd walk into mark bender hall and there'd be red jumpers. Everyone would be wearing red jumper. Oh my god, it's so weird, everyone's wearing jumper. Because you told your brain it's important. So your brain would give you nothing but red jumpers because it you, by selective attention, had told your brain red jumpers are important to me. So your brain would be picking out all the red jumpers. Right, really, really important. So this is how.

Speaker 1: 10:36

So in the more woo-woo side of psychology, it's like the secret or the law of attraction in the deepest, darkest hands of time. You know all that kind of secret stuff. They call it the law of attraction, or they call it manifestation, or they call it, you know, um, this, that kind of stuff. In psychology we call it the retic, it's about the reticular activating system, and we talk about, um, selective attention, okay, okay. So they are exactly more or less the same thing. It's you telling your brain this is really important. So your brain's showing you more of it and you, you know you can.

Speaker 1: 11:12

If you say, oh well, it's the law of attraction, you attract it to you, or you call it, in psychology, focusing, and so your brain gives it more of it to you. Either which way, what you focus on, you see more of so if you focus on something that's good, you see more good. And here's the kicker If you focus on something that's bad or negative, your brain doesn't know the difference. So in the woo-woo side of psychology or of mindset they say be careful of what energy you put out there, because you attract negative energy. In the psychology we say be careful what you focus on, because your brain doesn't know the difference between I don't want more of this and I do want more of this, because all it knows is, if you're focusing on this person, like if you focus on an ex-boyfriend, and you're like, oh, I'm going down the area where I normally see him, I hope I don't see him, I hope I don't see him. I hope I don't see him, I hope I don't see him your brain's going oh, look, there he is, because all it's heard is that boy's name again and again, and again. So your brain thinks you want to see that person.

Speaker 1: 12:17

Right instance that was is it cara, carla? Carla in it, sorry, in the instance that we're talking about, carla, it's not suddenly that her hair is thinning or suddenly that her skin is drier, or or whatever. But once you've put it into your mind. This is where I'm going with this long-winded explanation. And this is the thing about perimenopause is these changes have been happening slowly since you're 25. You lose collagen slowly. Your oestrogen dips slowly since you're 25 years old.

Speaker 1: 12:50

Yeah, this is why if people say to me, what age do I want or should I start collagen, the answer is always today, no matter how old you are today, start taking collagen today. Now, if you were under the age of 35, you could take marine collagen, which is type 2 collagen, um. But if you're over the age of 35, I would tell you to take our perimenopause collagen, because it's type one and three, which means it's going to help with your joints as well and your gut as well and everything else. So I would go for our perimenopause collagen, but if you're under the age of 35, you could have either our collagen or marine collagen. I don't like marine collagen because to me they put it with um, really strong flavors to hide the taste of the fishy stuff anyway.

Speaker 1: 13:29

So what's happening for so many women is they suddenly start noticing that they're aging and it becomes a focal point, and then every time they see themselves, they notice more, and it's really hard to get out of that habit, because every time you see a picture of yourself, every time you see a reflection of yourself, every time you see a new gray hair, every time you see any gathering, all you focus on is I look old, I feel old, I've got a new line, I've got a new wrinkle. So the thing is that you have to. We're going to talk about reframing it in a little while, but you it's thinking about trying to think of other ways to look at this period of your life. Instead of thinking about it as an aging period, you have to reframe it as um, the, the mindset thing, as this isn't me getting older. This is another chapter of it. So let's quickly address the, the, the physical changes.

Speaker 1: 14:39

So for your, for your skin, focus on hydration yeah um, hydration, hydration, hydration, because that's desperately what your skin needs. Um, I feel like I've gone off track completely, but you know it. The the thing about the physical changes is it feels like it's unfair and I'm just trying to say just try not to focus on them too much, because there's a lot you can do. Yeah, so focus on hydration and focus on collagen support. So collagen all day long. Take our perimenopause collagen, and there's something else coming out as well which will have collagen in it. Wink, wink. Watch the space on our website and our social media. You'll love it.

Speaker 1: 15:17

So a good quality moisturizer that incorporates collagen peptides as well is a really, really good idea. Hyaluronic acid to help support to lock moisture into your skin really good idea. For hair supplements that support hair growth. Omega-3s are really good. Biotin is really good as well.

Speaker 1: 15:36

And for energy, prioritizing nutrient-dense food um, just foods that so stay away from highly processed food. Look for foods that are really obviously your veggies and your berries and um, foods really high in protein. Foods are really high in um, antioxidants. Foods that have got really good, um, healthy fats in them, yeah, so foods that are, you know, as natural as you possibly can do.

Speaker 1: 16:01

Try and cook from fresh. You know as much as you can Look for foods that you know when you've had a good meal and you feel really full and satisfied but you don't feel like you're gassy or you don't feel like you're like sticky feeling. So when you're cooking, yeah, and just using beautiful organic ingredients, using olive oils, when you're making a sauce, you're using bases that are from beautiful tomatoes that you've, you know, and raw, like natural herbs and and stuff. You're not going for packet sauces and jars. It makes a massive difference to your energy levels and obviously movement is really important to energy levels when we find, when we're tired, we want to not move. But that you know, we were having this conversation this morning about me. I've got to reprioritize my days so that I'm moving more in the mornings because I work so late at night to help my energy levels.

Speaker 2: 16:58

It's amazing that you're going to stop doing yeah, and consistent sleep routines.

Speaker 1: 17:03

You know for your circadian rhythm, when you get into a consistent sleep routine it makes a massive difference on your energy levels. So it's prioritizing sleep, just consistent sleep. I always wear an Apple Watch. You can get some really great apps on your Apple Watch that tell you how regular your sleep cycle is. You have that. I have that all the time. So it tells me. It gives me a score and a percentage that tells me how regular my sleep is, what percentage of sleep I should be getting, how many hours I'm sleeping, and it gives me a score every night my sleep score. Highly recommend it for women with perimenopause because we we can persuade ourselves we're getting good quality sleep when we're not um. So it's very, very important to regulate your sleep in perimenopause massively, massively, massively important. They're really really good. Really highly recommend them. So, going back to the point about um, the mindset thing, I think this is the most important thing yeah, how to not how to

Speaker 1: 18:03

envy younger women, yeah, but um, reframing it. So you know the the looking after yourself is really important, obviously, like I said, starting a kind of regime for your skin and and and and your hair. Very important because it any perceived control reduces the stress. Not not even control, but perceived control will reduce your stress and therefore will help you to stop focusing on the process. But the mindset piece is where the magic is going to happen. Aging is perceived negatively, especially in the media, especially in the press, especially towards women, especially towards women, and we need to shift that narrative. Celebrate my age and I talk about my age all the time impact my partner, my partner's, more negative about his age than I am about mine.

Speaker 1: 18:55

He won't announce how old he is ever he's 35 but I, I, I will add years on to my age. So, as I said to you, next I'm first of january, I'm 51 and I'll be 51 for the whole of 2025. Now my birthday is actually on may, the 20th, so I, I could be holding off, holding off, holding off. I can't be bothered, I'm just 51 in 2025 and I will.

Speaker 1: 19:16

I will just say out loud I'm like I'm 51 and I'm happy to be 51 because it's it's a stage of life to embrace and unapologetically, energetically, just embrace who you are.

Speaker 1: 19:32

And I think the mindset bit on it is the important place to be around women and I think, if you can, if it's available to you, join a group of women. This isn't a shameless plug, but it's kind of a shameless plug If it's available to you to join, kind of a shameless plug if you can, if it's available to you to join, um, something like our Fiji fairy program or um, the beautiful mindset mask, um membership or something where you're around a group of women that are all on a mindset journey and that are of a similar age and that they're loving life at that age. Because, if thing is, if you accept that you're, you're, the. If you ever heard when people say you're, you're the average of the, you're the, you're I can't remember my brain just went brain fog. You know you're the, you're the sum of the, the average of the five people that you hang around with.

Speaker 2: 20:26

So your influence I've not heard, have you not? I've heard you're. You're as happy as your least happy. You're as happy as your least happy child. Only as happy as your least happy child.

Speaker 1: 20:35

Ouch, yeah, that's what you're gonna say I mean true, but ow, but you're the sum of, you're the average of this, of the of the three, of the like five people they hang around with. So you, let's think, for example, went back in your college days. You think about the people that, the five people that you hung around with, and then think about, about your mindset, and then think about the five people that you hang around with most at the moment and then think about your mindset so different. So if you were a woman in your late 40s and you were hanging around with either negative people, like if all your friends I'm not saying, carla, this for you, darling, I don't know who you hang around with but if you hang around with all women who were really upset about being in their 40s or were really complaining about it, or were like disappointed and we're all kind of like, oh, I need to do something about it, or it's really sad, or it's really unfair, then you would start to feel like that as well, because you're the some of the people hang around with. But if you're around women like, oh, my god, I'm loving this and this is so great and this is a chapter of freedom and liberty and it's a transformation. It's not a loss then you would start that would start to rub off on you and you know it's.

Speaker 1: 21:43

It can be a stage in your life where you've accumulated wisdom. I mean, I was recording, um, the christ Christmas message for the membership yesterday and it was all about what have you learned this year, what are your wins, what are your achievement, what are you going to take with you, what are you going to do more of? And that's really a story of our age as well, where you have this wisdom accumulated, where you can say, okay, these experiences that I've had have made me the woman that I was meant to be. So I talk a lot about because you know, obviously I'm a survivor of all kinds of journeys in my life. You know, having an alcoholic mother and the domestic violence and all those kind of things and all the control that I've been through with various people, and I believe that those journeys have created the woman that I was meant to be in order to do what I do for a living, in order to lead other women other women?

Speaker 1: 22:44

yeah, I agree. And so if you, if you consider that all of these things have helped you to be the woman that you were meant to be not that you, you still can be, because the woman that you want to be can still be further along on the journey, but then if you consider that all that wisdom and all that strength is a privilege that the young woman haven't got to yet, because you've asked me for oh, but what? What age would you want to be? And I'm like 50. Yeah, what age would you want to be? And what's my answer always?

Speaker 1: 23:10

the age you are now the age I am now, because it's a privilege. So I don't compare myself to younger women. I focus on always on celebrating how far I've come, because I I would never have dreamed that my life would be like this, even five years ago, even 10 years ago. So confidence doesn't come from looking the same as you did at 25. It comes from knowing your worth at every age that you are, and I think that's the really important thing to understand. Confidence can look good at any age, at any age, but you have to own it. Um and so, when we go back to what I was saying about the reticular activating system and focusing on what you want more of in your life, if you want more confidence, then realizing what you're worth at your age, carla, is super, duper important. And instead of focusing on the wrinkles and the thinning hair, focus on strength, and it can be physical strength. So you know, if you start exercise and I don't mean like going to the gym and lifting power weights, but yoga, walking, swimming, focusing on building your strength back again will make you feel more powerful.

Speaker 1: 24:24

One of the things I found in my late 40s was I started to feel fragile, physically, physically, and that scared me, that made me feel weak. When I started to feel more, um, a little bit more upright again, a little bit more um less vulnerable again, that really, really helped me. Taking my collagen and, um, strengthening my hair again and strengthening my skin again halted the aging for me, yeah, and my even my hairdresser noticed. He was like what are you doing? What are you doing? Like that's ridiculous. You're aging backwards now, and that helped me to feel like it wasn't just running like a train that was running away with me. So those things the supplements, the yoga, walking, those kind of things helped me to feel like it wasn't just inevitable. It wasn't just this thing that was taking my power away.

Speaker 1: 25:19

Um, I think, focus on what's changing. You know, rather than focus on what's changing, focus on thriving. Maybe your skin texture has changed a little bit, but what about the spark in in your eyes? What about the wisdom in your mind or in your smile? Find a role model as well. You know, as I said, surround yourself with women, vibrant women, happy women in their 40s and 50s, women that are aging with confidence, women that are aging with grace, women that are aging and then enjoying life. You know, if you're surrounded by women who are unhappy in this age, you won't find that you're gonna, yeah, be joyful.

Speaker 1: 25:59

Um, dress for you. If you have found that you're starting to feel dowdy, dowdy. Um, if you're wearing clothes that make you feel frumpy or old. No, if you're starting to wear colors that make you feel unhappy, stop doing that for yourself. You you need to get. Maybe get a new hairstyle or go for a makeup lesson, or just you need to feel fabulous, not younger. Don't get into the trap of saying I want to feel younger, because that's a vicious circle. You need to feel fabulous, not younger. Don't get into the trap of saying I want to feel younger, because that's a vicious circle. You need to just feel like you and the best version of you. So it's not about chasing youth. It's about chasing vibrancy. It's about chasing happiness. It's about chasing joy. It's not about chasing youth.

Speaker 1: 26:48

If you practice gratitude every day and you focus on three things that you love about yourself, it sounds like, oh my God, I'm so egotistical. But if you focus on being grateful for what you have in your life, what you love about yourself, what you love about what you're doing in your life versus what you don't, again you're getting the reticular activation system. There's a reason I told you the story but the reticular activation system. You're focusing on what you love in your life, what you love about yourself, what's great about your life, what's great about you. You're telling your brain I want more of this, this is what I love, this is what I want more of.

Speaker 1: 27:22

And you stop focusing on a few little, you know, a few lines around your eyes, a few gray hairs. I mean grey hairs. I mean I I hate, I get it. I'm, believe it or not, I'm about 70 80 percent grey. Yeah, I mean I'm. I'm naturally very dark brunette and I had to just embrace the I mean I'm the blonde life, but it's silvery blonde. It's getting more and more silver blonde as we go through it, because I'm 70 80 percent grey and I love being brunette. I'm so chocolatey brownie brunette and I loved it and I had to just go. Okay, I'm not doing that anymore. And your mom did the same.

Speaker 1: 28:00

She went lighter yeah, she was a redhead, she was a bright redhead and you know it. It is what it is. I, I, I grieved it for a little while and then I accepted it and I moved on and and I'm making sure it's in the most beautiful condition it can be in. I'm making it thick, as thick and luscious as I can, I take amazing care of it, I use great products on it, I I have some lovely Dyson stuff that I machine, stuff that I use on it tools and I try and make it look great as much as I can.

Speaker 1: 28:34

So you know you focus on what you can do, not what's taken away from you. And again, that whole reticular, activating the RES thing, the sparkly hairnet, or, if you want to focus on the law of attraction and and manifestation. And you know, um, whichever way, whichever side of the woo-woo line, you struggle, you will find that you just become happier. You know you really really do and, as always, be kind to yourself, please, please, please, please. You know you're doing your best and that's enough. You know, treat yourself with the compassion you would show your best friend, always, always, always, always. So I think, carla, my darling, ageing isn't something that's happening to you, it's something that you're actively participating in, actively creating. You have the power to write this chapter in any way that feels authentic to you, in any way that feels authentic to you, any way that feels fulfilling to you and um.

Speaker 1: 29:37

One of my favorite quotes is maya angelou we delight in the beauty of the butterfly, but we rarely admit the changes. It's a gone, it's gone through to achieve that beauty. So embrace this time, um, with curiosity, grace and, most importantly, as always, self-love. So I hope that helps, my darling. If you need any help, you can always reach out to us in our Facebook group or WhatsApp and we'll always help. And if anyone has any questions, do let us know on the WhatsApp group or in our in our whatsapp group. No, in the facebook group or on whatsapp, and we'd love to wish you a very merry christmas. So, um, very, very merry christmas from both of us, and thank you very much for listening. We will see you next week. Take care, bye, bye. Thanks for joining us today on the uncomplicated perimenopause podcast. We hope you found this episode helpful and inspiring don't forget.

Speaker 2: 30:48

If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, you can reach out through our perimenopause group or on WhatsApp.

Speaker 1: 30:54

For more information on my coaching, perimenopause supplements, books or upcoming events, please visit wwwkategrovernercom.

Speaker 2: 31:03

And if you've enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate and review our podcast. It really helps us reach more listeners, just like you. Until next time.

Speaker 1: 31:12

Remember, perimenopause doesn't have to be complicated. We're here to help you every step of the way stay uncomplicated, bye-bye.