Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to the Uncomplicated Perimenopause Podcast. I'm Kate Grosvenor, your friendly perimenopause expert and life coach.

Speaker 2: 0:15

And I'm Gabriella Kate's daughter, representing all the women who are nowhere near perimenopause but want to understand it better.

Speaker 1: 0:23

Whether you're just starting your perimenopause journey deep into it, whether you're just starting your perimenopause journey deep into it, or you're a loved one trying to support someone who is, we've got you covered.

Speaker 2: 0:32

We'll be answering all of your burning questions, exploring the ups and downs and sharing expert advice and personal insights.

Speaker 1: 0:39

So grab a cup of tea, get comfy and let's dive into the wonderful. Get comfy and let's dive into the wonderful, sometimes wild, world of perimenopause together.

Speaker 2: 0:47

And remember, no matter where you are on your journey, you are not alone.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Welcome to the Uncomplicated Perimenopause. Hello, my darlings, and welcome to the Uncomplicated Perimenopause podcast. I'm Kate Grosvenor.

Speaker 2: 1:05

I'm a perimenopause expert and life coach, and I'm gabriella grovner, kate's daughter, here to learn with you all.

Speaker 1: 1:10

I actually forgot to say that last week and you reminded me at the end I was like, oh well, that's really helpful, they know who we are I know, and brain fog.

Speaker 2: 1:18

It's just to show you the brain fog is real we're not making it up, it's not um, it's not a myth, we're not gaslighting you brain fog is actually a thing.

Speaker 1: 1:25

I think this is one of the lovely things about going through perimenopause it affects so many of us in so many glorious ways and, yes, the struggle is real. It is it is the struggle was real this morning. I had one of those weeks this week where I've just worked every single day for various reasons, just because I was catching up, because obviously Rome went to uni last week, so I was catching up on all the stuff. And then this morning I was like no, I was like Garfield.

Speaker 2: 1:51

Remember the old Garfield cartoons when he used to get out of bed yes the older you get, the more you relate to Garfield.

Speaker 1: 1:57

I know lasagna and coffee and and he hates Mondays like I get it. No, I love Mondays. Come on, we love what we do.

Speaker 2: 2:04

I like what I do, but just Monday. I think we're wired to not like Mondays.

Speaker 1: 2:08

No, I like all days. All right, I'm sorry. I love what I do. Rude, she works for me. What is?

Speaker 2: 2:14

she saying Is there a message? It's just a Monday, it's supposed to like mondays, so it's not like.

Speaker 1: 2:22

You've got a massive commute, neither does garfield. It's just a thing, do you believe?

Speaker 2: 2:29

in reincarnation to an extent, yeah, because I look at some animals and I'm like you know too much. Lupin, yeah, he knows way too much.

Speaker 1: 2:36

So we have this guy called lupin. Right, we're going off on a tangent. This is early in the book house we have a cat called lupin. He's a russian gray and he's like the dude. We love Lupin. Lupin is gorgeous and he just knows things. He's human.

Speaker 2: 2:48

Yeah, in another life he was. He knows too much. I want to come back as a cat I'd love to, or like a golden retriever with a nice family that would be fun.

Speaker 1: 2:58

I'm just a happy dog.

Speaker 2: 3:00

Because dogs smile as well. Cats smile. They do smile, so they know too much.

Speaker 1: 3:04

I know, okay. Should we carry on with the podcast?

Speaker 2: 3:05

Yes, it is episode 17. Oh cute, we didn't say that as well.

Speaker 1: 3:08

Yeah, yeah yeah, did I say 16?.

Speaker 2: 3:11

No, you didn't say which one it was, but it's 17,. Guys, I thought I did at the beginning. Anyway, hey-ho episode, but you love this question? Go on then. No, but this one touched my soul and I'm really looking for. I want to know your answer, so I'm really glad that this one got submitted a little bit, but it's no, it's really good. Like I'm really sorry, but like these questions that you guys submit on whatsapp are like they're it, they're gold, are they? They really? Are they really? And I struggle picking between which one?

Speaker 2: 3:40

sorry, concentrate mama. Sorry, so it's from samantha. Hey, samantha from exeter I was.

Speaker 1: 3:48

I was part of exeter for four years. Oh yeah, you were. Yes, I got now.

Speaker 2: 3:52

I think it's brilliant that they also tell us where they're from. I really like it it is.

Speaker 2: 3:57

So. Samantha is from exeter and her and her best friend have always done everything together cute they went to. They've known each other since primary school. They went to school together, they got married the same year and even had kids around the same years so very close. They shared basically all of life experiences together. Now samantha is going through perimenopause and her best friend is just not understanding her and says she can't relate to her and she thinks she she's being overreacting with her symptoms. Ooh, is her best friend gaslighting her? Okay? Or can their experiences really be so different?

Speaker 1: 4:32

Do you know what I mean? Now, oh, juicy question, I like this one, yep, oh, oh gosh. Layers, it's like an ogre, an onion there's layers, there's layers, there's layers to this one. Okay, so let's start off with some statistics. Okay, because I like as a test type.

Speaker 1: 4:50

Statistically, 85 of women show perimenopausal symptoms. So straight off the bat, samantha, your best friend, could be one of the 15, one of the lucky few that it just sails through perimenopause. So one of the things I say of the lucky few that it's just sails through perimenopause. So one of the things I say a lot. So we do, obviously TikTok lives. We do in our membership, we do live Q&As and you know we're always saying we're not in the same boat but we're all in the same sea and we're actually not all in the same sea. 85% of us are in the same sea. The other 15% are on the beach having mind of their own business, you know, eating an ice cream, reading a book you know, carrying on, carrying on with life so we're not all actually in the same seat.

Speaker 1: 5:31

85 of us are in the same sea. The other 15 are minding their business. So, straight off the bat, samantha, your friend, could be one of those guys. Now, the other thing is, if we look at the evidence, whenever the shit fm starts so shit fm is what, as you know, is the radio station in your head that plays crap to you all day long whenever you've got a negative thinking cycle, the first thing you have to do is look at the evidence. This is your best friend. You've been through everything that life has to offer you. You've been through all life's experiences together. Why would she suddenly, at the age of, I presume, 40 something?

Speaker 2: 6:08

yeah, start gaslighting you like she.

Speaker 1: 6:10

Wouldn't she also want to share this with you yeah, you've shared everything, literally boys and periods and boobs and straight knees and wedding jitters and the whole shebang. Why would she not want to share this with you? She would if she understood it statistically. So if we look at the evidence, so always look at the evidence. And if you can't find the evidence, brain dump it, write it down on paper. So whenever you think is that true or am I making it up, don't let your brain figure it out, because your brain will muddle it, because our brain can muddle it because our brain can have a battle of its own in there.

Speaker 1: 6:48

Get it down on paper, brain dump it. Just write a conscious thought on a black, even a black, piece of paper. You don't have to buy a fancy brain dump journal, but you can just literally brain dump it down and just look at the evidence. Is this true? What is the evidence to support my theory that she's gas evidence? Is this true? What is the evidence to support my theory that she's gaslighting me? What is the evidence?

Speaker 2: 7:10

to support. She says she's overreacting.

Speaker 1: 7:11

So I think that's where, maybe, the confusion, that's where the hurt feelings comes in so when you feel like someone is not supporting you or supporting your emotions, what you need to say is you need to have a kind of brave conversation with them where you set boundaries. So these are what we call difficult boundary conversations in in the life coaching world, and when you're having difficult boundary conversations, what you need to do is talk about your feelings, and talk about this is a little bit. This is a little bit coachy for a second, bear with me. You need to talk about your feelings and their observable behaviours, because their observable behaviours are not up for debate because they're observable okay, and your feelings are not, for them to have an opinion on, because they're your feelings.

Speaker 2: 8:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 8:01

So if you talk about your feelings and their observable behaviours, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. So if you talk about your feelings and their observable behaviors, neither of those can be argued about because they're both facts, well, they're both your feelings, which are your business, yeah, and observable behaviors, which are fact. So if you say, for example, when you tell me that I am overreacting, it makes me feel this, yeah, and it doesn't come across as you, you, you, because then anyone's going to get defensive yeah you know, yeah, um, in your face and in that way.

Speaker 1: 8:33

and then, if you can give an alternative, it would really make me feel insert feelings here, if you could perhaps do alternative instead. And in that way, what you're doing is you're giving them a solution, you're not belittling them, condescending them, being aggressive towards them, so they're more likely to be open. So you could say, for example, hey, let's call her Debbie.

Speaker 2: 8:58

Yeah, she didn't say it.

Speaker 1: 9:00

Hi, debbie. When you tell me I'm overreacting, it really hurts my feelings. If you could maybe just listen to me instead, yeah, it would really help me just to vent what I'm going through and I would feel like I'm being listened to no one can take that to offense or okay, and also if you can understand.

Speaker 1: 9:24

So that's what you need from her, from your side. If you can understand, because the thing is, if you feel like somebody's gaslighting you, if you feel like somebody's either in denial or they're gaslighting you, or they're blaming you, or they're if, for example, like today, I didn't wake up early yeah I had a bit of a self-care morning.

Speaker 1: 9:42

Yeah, right, and I said to you I worked late last night. I've worked late every night this week. I'm having a self-care morning. Yeah, if you turn on to me when, what's your problem? Yeah oh, what. So you work until nine o'clock on Monday.

Speaker 1: 9:54

That's late night really don't you think you're just doing a bit pathetic? Yeah, if you'd have talked to me like that, you know I would have internalized some of them guilt. I would have externalized some of them guilt. I would have externalized some of them anger. And what then happens is we then start to feel like we're angry, and then we do start to overreact in inverted commas, we do then start to raise our voices. We have heightened emotions, and then it becomes almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy, because then you're like back at somebody.

Speaker 2: 10:24

I didn't react like that, by the way, no, just saying yes no, she didn't.

Speaker 1: 10:27

She was like no, you take time for you, I'll bring you something to eat in bed, and you were like you know, so it was lovely, yeah, but are you with me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. So help her to understand, rather than presume that she's just trying to gaslight you and the overreaction might be because you're presuming, yeah, she's trying to gaslight you, are you with? So it might be your reaction to what she's saying, that she's saying you're overreacting to, rather than your symptoms yeah, and they've been best friends for ever and ever.

Speaker 2: 11:01

Like it's not, she's not gonna. Like you said, she's not to suddenly be wanting to attack her or gaslight her.

Speaker 1: 11:08

Presumably Now we don't know. Is there something else going on with her friend?

Speaker 2: 11:13

True.

Speaker 1: 11:13

Now maybe her friend maybe her friend's actually going through a perimenopause could be in denial, could? Be having a whole host of mental health symptoms that she doesn't know about, she's not willing to admit to.

Speaker 2: 11:24

Maybe she's not feeling the physical, but just the mental.

Speaker 1: 11:27

Do you know so statistically, this uplots thickens. I said it was like onions and ovaries. It has layers. Do you know? Statistically you're more likely to go in at 40 years old I don't know how old Samantha is or her friend.

Speaker 2: 11:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:41

But statistically, you're more likely to go into a GP surgery at the age of 40 and be given antidepressants than HRT. No, why? Because you're more likely to be diagnosed with depression than you are perimenopause. Based on what symptoms? Based on the fact that you go in and you say you're feeling down and you're lacking energy and you're feeling disconnected from your feelings and you're feeling like you're lacking motivation and you can't get out of bed.

Speaker 2: 12:09

What's that going to do, though?

Speaker 1: 12:11

That's going to do very little because, statistically again, a very common antidepressant you'll be given is to boost your serotonin here in life. The problem because quite a lot of the antidepressants for serotonin might be to spread out the amount of serotonin that you have now in perimenopause, as you may have heard me say, quite often serotonin is produced well, everyone's serotonin is 90% of it's produced in the gut in perimenopause. Quite often you have problems with your gut. You get bloated, you get diarrhea, you get constipation all kinds of things going on your gut. Yeah, if your gut's out of whack and you're not producing enough serotonin, does it really matter how far you stretch it out? It's like, well, it's so thin anyway. Yeah, what you need to be doing is working on your gut health and working on reducing your stress. That's going to have a much better effect on your mental health yeah then prescribing an antidepressant.

Speaker 1: 13:05

That's all it's going to do is stretch out the amount of serotonin you actually have. You need to work on creating more of it and learning mental health techniques. I'm not saying to stop your antidepressants before anybody does that. I am not saying stop your antidepressants. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is it would make much more sense to help women, replacing the hormones that they need. Helping them sort out their gut health, which is more likely to help them create more serotonin. Giving them techniques to help reduce their stress so that they help with their gut health.

Speaker 1: 13:40

And it helps to reduce the stress which detracts from their happiness.

Speaker 2: 13:45

I'm really shocked. Is it just like a quick fix so they can get out of the office?

Speaker 1: 13:50

Well, it's what they're taught to do. A lot in healthcare, antidepressants are pretty much one of the top five medicines that are prescribed to people.

Speaker 2: 14:01

I didn't know GPs could just do that. I thought you'd need another evaluation and further this for you. I didn't know you could get.

Speaker 1: 14:07

You know when I talk about being addicted to prescriptions in 2016,. The biggest one was antidepressants.

Speaker 2: 14:13

Right.

Speaker 1: 14:14

Because I went in complaining of low mood and saying I just I was really upset, you know I'd lost my. I mean it was basically because I was mentally unwell after going through all this, you know, domestic violence and all this control and all this stuff, and I was working up to getting this divorce and stuff. And I needed some mental health work which I didn't admit to at the time and they didn't help you either no they just gave me antidepressants and that, just that just made me sleep.

Speaker 1: 14:41

And then, because I slept in the day, I couldn't sleep at night, so then they gave me sleeping pills so they just wanted you to sleep all day, every day.

Speaker 2: 14:47

So that's what I did?

Speaker 1: 14:47

I just slept and then, because I couldn't do anything else, I then ate. Yeah, that's when I got addicted to the. You know, that's when I just ate sugar all day, yeah, so I basically woke up took the girls to school, came back, went back to sleep because I was so tired, because I hadn't slept at night time, because I had the sleeping pills which sent me to sleep. But didn't keep me asleep, then I ate sugar all the time. When I was awake up, then I was wired yeah the girls to school, came back, went to sleep again.

Speaker 2: 15:11

I knew all of this obviously going on because I, you know, was there, but I didn't know it.

Speaker 1: 15:15

The yeah, how it, yeah, the pieces that were put together yeah, and then the painkillers, because I was asleep all day and I was gaining more and more and more weight, so I wasn't walking or moving. Yeah, my back got more and more in pain. So then I had all the heavy duty prescription painkillers.

Speaker 2: 15:30

Yeah, so it's painkillers which do make you sleep as well like so it's painkillers, sleeping pills and antidepressants.

Speaker 1: 15:35

Yeah, that's All adding up together and that's I don't know how you were ever awake. Well.

Speaker 2: 15:41

I was a zombie darling. Yeah, I remember you, but I don't remember the pictures. But it's like all the black circles under my eyes and all the rashy skin and the bloating and all that stuff, because I remember doctors wanted to prescribe me antidepressants and you were like no, no, no, do not take that, you're too young, you don't need it.

Speaker 1: 15:58

let's focus on other things but it was because I wanted to teach you coping mechanisms. If you truly, if I truly thought that's what you needed, yeah, if I truly thought that that was the the solution, I would have gone. Yeah, listen, but I knew that that what you were going through was something that we could help you with. And you know, and you do do the things that you go for your mental health walks and you vent and you talk things through and and that was much more important- for you at that time, because it's giving you coping mechanisms to go through it.

Speaker 2: 16:30

I'm shocked that that's what the gps do for women in this.

Speaker 1: 16:33

Yeah so, instead of looking at my hormones, instead of thinking about why, why was I going through what I was going through? They never asked me what I was going through. They never once said to me are you going through anything? Is there something going on in your life? Is there something? They literally started me on antidepressants, so they went.

Speaker 2: 16:47

ah they wrote the prescription. Yeah, Come on, guys, do better. What is that? Because I see that some of the comments about women just saying that they just got prescribed antidepressants that it's making them feel worse.

Speaker 1: 17:00

It's a 10 minute appointment and you walk out with a prescription for antidepressants. That was the problem. So when we talk about sorry, go back to this topic in hand. When we talk about Samantha's friend, we don't know, is she going through something mentally and not having the physical side effects? Yeah, Maybe she's going through the mental side effects.

Speaker 1: 17:21

We don't know at which point. She could be so low that she's resenting her friend, that she doesn't know it. Yeah, I mean, it might not be at all. She might just be going oh, go on, get a grip.

Speaker 2: 17:39

She might just not understand that anybody's going through it and sometimes, when you're really going through it, it's hard to hear what other people are going through and and listening to what everyone else.

Speaker 1: 17:43

It's hard. Yeah, I mean, there is that as well. So, like if I'm going through what seems to me like the end of the world, if I'm going through like this massive depression or I'm going through like really bad anxiety, and you come to me and you're going, I'm having hot flashes, I'll be like, yeah, yeah, what do you know? What do you know about life? You know if I'm mentally really exhausted?

Speaker 2: 18:01

yeah, so we don't know, that could be yeah again, so they just really need a chat they need to have a really honest chat and, you know, have cards on the table.

Speaker 1: 18:11

So you know, this is my dad, yeah, my grandpa, her grandpa, my father. His work was as a criminal psychologist and so one of his roles was to go into prisons and to go into court and to decide whether the person that was accused of a crime what their mens rea was, and mens rea is Latin for, like, the mental state behind the crime. So when you commit a crime, there's two things there's the action itself and then there's the intention behind the action, the mental state of the person behind the action. So, for example, murder is premeditated. So in order to commit murder, it's a premeditated act, so you have to plan it.

Speaker 2: 18:57

You have to know what you're doing and have the intention, have the intention to commit murder, right?

Speaker 1: 18:59

so the difference in murder and manslaughter is one is premeditated and intentional and one was basically like an accident. Yeah, yeah, right. So with your friend, I think you both need to go into a conversation presuming good intent. This is your best friend, this is somebody that you've loved and known, and decades, decades. And if you both go into a conversation with the idea that you both want the best for each other, like you both love and care for each other deeply, and both go into that conversation presuming good intent, then it lowers both of your defenses. For a start, it lowers both of your heart rates. You know, when we presume ill intent, our shackles go up.

Speaker 1: 19:47

You know, we automatically start doing this. We convey to the other person that we're protecting ourselves and we're going in for a fight.

Speaker 2: 19:55

Does that person pick up on it if we don't say anything?

Speaker 1: 19:57

100% yeah, because a lot of what we convey to the person is non-verbal so if you're, if you're in there and I'm already like this, like I'm pursing my lips and I've got a scowl, yeah, and you automatically know this is not going to be good. Yeah, like I don't want to talk to this person. But if I'm in there, if I've got my palms open and relaxed and they're on my knees and I've got a smile on my face, you're like, okay, she's open and she's listening to what I'm going to say.

Speaker 2: 20:23

This is real psychology.

Speaker 1: 20:24

But it's true, right, it's true. It shows you that I'm open, I'm relaxed, I'm willing. You can approach me. And we need to pay attention to these things, because friendships can be made or broken at any point. They're almost I don't want to say they're more important than romantic relationships, but they can certainly go on a lot longer.

Speaker 2: 20:46

Yeah, I did see this post recently that this girl said to her friend your boyfriend might not be at your wedding, but I definitely will.

Speaker 1: 20:54

So true story and it will so true story and it's, yeah, and it's sometimes like when you and your sisters fall out. My daughters, obviously, I have three of them. Yeah, um, sometimes I have to say just, you know that you love each other. Go in there with good intentions. Yeah, go and try and mend your good intentions, because you all love each other. You're incredibly different, three of you could not be more different?

Speaker 1: 21:15

I don't think, yeah so you, sometimes you just have to. You know, you'll hear me often say presume good intent, yeah, and sort it out, yeah, and sometimes you just have to do that, you just have to presume the intentions were good yeah, okay, it's easier, though, with sisters to presume that than outside people, I think but surely if we have the conversation about if you've known somebody since primary school, let's presume both women.

Speaker 1: 21:39

Again, we don't know how old Samantha and her friend are, who's now called Debbie in my eyes, but I don't know what her name is.

Speaker 2: 21:46

It'd be amazing if her name was.

Speaker 1: 21:47

Debbie please. If we presume that Samantha and Debbie are in their 40s, they've known each other for decades yeah, at least three are they not sisters? Yeah, almost.

Speaker 2: 21:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah, my best friend. I've been friends with her 13 years and she's like a sister to me. Never mind 30 years really. Yeah, went through periods together. That's why I really related to her question.

Speaker 1: 22:08

Yeah, it's like periods great knees, boys boobs, boobs, like the whole shebang and it's, it's a lot and those friends you don't replace easily. You don't let go of that kind of history easily. So it's worth trying and, as I said, have those conversations where you talk about your feelings and their behaviors that you can see so that it doesn't come across as really judgy and also you.

Speaker 1: 22:34

You know if you can give her an idea of your symptoms and learn language together. Maybe watch that. We did a podcast, didn't we, about all the episodes yeah, let me know what number it was and maybe listen to it together. Which one? The one about relationships, where we talked about communication communication tips four tips.

Speaker 1: 22:55

Communication tips Four, episode four yeah, so maybe have a listen to that one together. Episode four, where we talk about communication tips, because although it's not a married couple, it still applies because one person is going through it and one person isn't going through it, yeah. So you still need to learn to communicate through a barrier, that's a good one. It's still a type one last layer we need to go through.

Speaker 2: 23:22

I would copy the Scottish accent back, but I'm really well, I'm really bad at it anyway.

Speaker 1: 23:25

So my other half Scottish, but he'll kill me if he listens to this one, he doesn't. He finds it kind of slightly annoying, slightly entertaining.

Speaker 2: 23:33

I mean I would if someone tried to like speak English like an Egyptian person. It'd be funny. But it's a bit like no, you don't know what you're talking.

Speaker 1: 23:40

You know you don't get it yeah, but although when when you speak arabic, it's cute anything, um. So one more layer. Her friend may not be going through the perimenopause yet yeah, because we don't actually know how old they are. Yeah, how old they are yeah so you may be going through the perimenopause and your friend may go through it any years from now. Six months from now, she may be late on set yeah so we don't know, some women will go through it.

Speaker 1: 24:07

So the average age is 51 for women in the uk. For women of color it can be slightly earlier, so 49. Why? Just as okay?

Speaker 1: 24:15

perimenopause can be 7 to 10 years 10 well, it can be 7 to 15 years at this point so you could start, let's say, at 35, 38, 40, 38, 40, 42, 45, noticing the changes, because perimenopause is essentially when your body starts noticing that the oestrogen is leaving your body and that you start having symptoms. So you could start noticing it, gosh, I mean, most generally women start noticing it around 40. So you could be 41, 42 and start noticing it. Your best friend could start noticing it 47, 48 wow so she could just turn around and get like slammed in the face with it in two years from now so that's another thing and then she'll really need you, and then she'll need you.

Speaker 1: 24:58

So, um, hey ho, that's another thing to watch out for. And you can say that to her. Say listen, you may not have symptoms now, but you may be having symptoms later on. Yeah, so she may not be going through it, but she may absolutely need you in a few minutes from now, because yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:14

You haven't struggled with that, though with friends. Have you Explaining your symptoms in that sense, the perimenopausal ones?

Speaker 1: 25:27

Not to be funny, but most of my friends listen to the podcast and my videos and stuff and if my friends had an issue understanding perimenopause, there'd be something a bit wrong. Yeah, because most of my friends watch that, listen to the podcast, watch my videos, have my book yeah, um, and are all my own age.

Speaker 2: 25:38

My friends won't understand perimenopause no, but you've made most of them watch the bit podcast anyway, yeah it was all of them, all my friends in Egypt and I'm gonna go in a few months and I'm taking all their phones again and being like have you downloaded this one, have you downloaded that one? Come on, guys, I know, and the boys as well, literally they're mostly boys bless them. Oh, I love it. I think it's great that they're listening to it and they want to. They actually some of them really genuinely listen to it and send me messages and they want to educate themselves because they know that their mom's going through it that's it that's cute we're educating the world one man at a time.

Speaker 1: 26:13

If every woman educated one man, by the time your daughters get there?

Speaker 2: 26:18

they'll all get it, they'll all know. Yeah, because boys are starting they understand the periods a bit better.

Speaker 1: 26:22

They, they're getting better because our generation and the generation underneath me are educating their sons.

Speaker 2: 26:30

And schools are educating boys now as well because it wasn't a thing before.

Speaker 1: 26:34

No, but it still needs some work. We have a responsibility to teach men so that they know, maybe my generation, they'd really understand it better.

Speaker 1: 26:43

Oh, I mean the girls. Maybe my generation they'd really understand it. Oh, I mean the girls. I mean Jenna and Rowan have zero qualms about talking to boys in detail. You shouldn't. So, as always, we hope you've enjoyed this episode, my darlings. Any questions, feel free to use the WhatsApp number. Feel free to ask us questions in the Facebook group, which is Perimenopause with Kate Grosvenor. We will see you in there and we will see you next week. Have a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful week. Speak very kindly to yourselves, love on yourselves, because that's always important. Take care and we will see you next week. Bye, thanks for joining us today on the uncomplicated perimenopause podcast.

Speaker 2: 27:27

We hope you found this episode helpful and inspiring, don't forget if you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, you can reach out through our perimenopause group or on whatsapp for more information on my coaching, perimenopause books or upcoming events, please visit wwwkatebrovnercom. And if you've enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate and review our podcast. It really helps us reach more listeners, just like you. Until next time.

Speaker 1: 27:56

Remember, perimenopause doesn't have to be complicated. We're here to help you every step of the way.

Speaker 2: 28:02

Stay uncomplicated.