Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello, my darling, and welcome to links for a start, but welcome to episode 15 of the Uncomplicated Perimenopause Podcast. My name is Kate Grosvenor. I'm a perimenopause expert and life coach.

Speaker 1: 0:11

And I'm Gabriella Grosvenor, Kate's daughter, here to learn with you all and, as always, we'll probably talk about absolutely nothing of relevance before we start. We have to feel sorry for Gabriella today because she's ever so poorly. But the trooper is here. She's here, but she's all snotty, yeah. So please ignore my croaky voice. And she's all wrapped up warm because she's ever so poorly. I've heard it's warm outside. It's glorious. People have told me that it's warm. I think was it last episode or the episode before we were complaining that it was autumn.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Yeah, and now it's beautiful weather. I can't feel it. I literally went outside and I'm like I'm really cold, my little sister was like well, it's nice and sunny.

Speaker 1: 0:48

I think she's actually sunbathing. Yeah, she is your little sister. She's 19, she's always she's a baby. Well, she's always going to be your little sister, isn't she? So, whether she likes it or not and not is the question. She's like I'm 19, you're so. Please forgive you, you're all snotty, side out thanks but yes, we're, we're going to.

Speaker 2: 1:09

We got this. We can do it. We can do it, yes okay.

Speaker 1: 1:13

So my lovely snotty friend, what is the question for today?

Speaker 2: 1:18

it's from claire from leeds claire from leeds.

Speaker 2: 1:21

So claire has been to see two doctors at her gp recently. Okay, both have been male just bear in mind that and they've both been really unsympathetic towards her and her symptoms, okay with perimenopause. So it's kind of a two-part question. A should she request a female doctor instead? And b do you think this is a bit controversial? Perhaps do you think are we going to get cancelled, please don't. Do you think that men truly understand what it feels like and can give advice, the advice that she needs?

Speaker 1: 1:52

oh, that's a really good one that's a really good question and please don't get us cancelled. Oh, I really like that. Yeah, okay, gosh right honest. How honest an answer do we do we put out here?

Speaker 2: 2:05

honest enough to not get cancelled, but honest enough to also give her the best advice.

Speaker 1: 2:10

Okay oh, it's like because? Okay. So I'm on the spectrum, as most people probably figure out by now, because whatever comes in my mouth goes. Whatever comes in my head goes out my mouth, and I have a really bad habit of just telling the truth as it is. So, as a life coach, I always encourage my clients to do strength tests and do values tests, and everything always comes up. Honesty is my number one strength and honest is honesty is my number one value, but it gets me into trouble my entire life, so I have to be really careful on this.

Speaker 1: 2:37

I'm talking about yourselves. Will I figure out how to get my brain to reorganize it? Okay, so I'll tell you a story. Instead of telling you the exact answer. I'll tell you a story, probably about six or seven years ago, before I started going through the perimenopause, that I was aware of. I had a client who was in full-blown perimenopause who I was coaching as a, as a one-to-one client in my life coaching business, and I would love to at some point see her and apologize to her true story. So, as you know, my life has not been a bed of roses.

Speaker 1: 3:11

People sometimes look at me and think well, it's okay for you yeah, and you haven't told that as well, oh yeah yeah, people, they hear the accent, yeah, they see the letters after my name and they think, yeah, silver spoon, like you know, you sit there in your ivory tower, mate, and your life is clearly a bed of roses. And no, it hasn't been. So my life, the way that I coach, is always from I'll get into the trenches with you, I will sit in the mud with you and I will hold your hand and we'll go through it together. This is the way I always right. Correct me if I'm wrong. So I've either been through it, which is usually the case, so people say to me you know, I've been morbidly obese. I've been anorexic, more or less touching on it. I've been diagnosed with diabetic. I've had eating disorders. I grew up with an alcoholic mother. I've been through domestic violence. I've been through my own addictions. I've been through um it's not been easy depression I've been through.

Speaker 1: 4:10

I've lived around the world. I've been through abuse. I've pretty bankruptcy. I've been through single mum bringing up kids without money. I've pretty much most things that you can come at me with. Yeah, I've twice divorced, crying about not being able to pay bills. I struggle. When people come to me and say this is how I'm feeling, I go, I understand, I get it. I know how it feels. Let me hold your hand and I'll tell you how to get through this and that's how I coach. I never coach from a place of oh well darling, who would be like that. I always coach from. I understand, I, I get it.

Speaker 1: 4:46

The reason I'm telling you this is not because I'm the most fabulous coach on the planet. The reason I'm telling you this is because when I clearly but when I, when I had this client, she was the first client I'd ever coached who was in menopause, perimenopause and was struggling and I sympathized with her. Did you understand? At the, I thought I did, and this is going to be my point. So she was telling me about her struggles with them, changing her patches. She was talking to me about how out of touch and out of love she felt with her husband. She was talking to me about the mental health aspects of perimenopause and I sympathized with her and I gave it my best shot. I thought I did a really good job and if I met her again now, I'd wrap my arms around her and I'd say I'm really sorry why I don't think I I didn't do a good enough job I didn't give her. If I had her again as a client right now, I would move bloody mountains for her. I would get onto my white horse and I would move bloody mountains for her. I would get onto my white horse and I would genuinely, I'd strap a sword onto my back and I would go. Well, that's just not good enough. Because they ran out of her HRT patches and they were fobbing her off with a different type of patch and they were messing her around and I was kind of giving it well darling. You know, they know what they're doing and let's just see how it goes.

Speaker 1: 6:08

And I was trying to placate her rather than getting on the crusade with her. And that's what she needed and she's a very sweet woman, she's a very kind woman, she's very even-tempered. She needed someone to back her up. She needed someone to fight the good fight with her and I didn't do that because I didn't understand how desperate she was at the time, because I didn't understand how it felt. And I coached her really well, I think, and I made a difference to her life and we worked on different areas really really well.

Speaker 1: 6:42

But when it came to helping her and be a champion of perimenopause with her, honestly we put my hand on my heart and say I don't think I did a good enough job. And the reason I didn't do a good enough job is because I didn't get how it felt on the inside and I really feel bad for that and I've thought off and on about her. It's very rare that I will turn around to you and say if I could go back in time, I would do a client differently, because I know. I know how many lives I've changed. This is true, this is me talking the truth. You know as it is. I know how many lives I've changed and I know how many clients will turn around to me and say because of you, this is what's changed my life, because of you. And you know I get messages all the time from women yeah, every day saying you know, I genuinely believe I have the best job in the world and and you see my messages and yeah, how many women will say thank you?

Speaker 2: 7:31

and yeah, my life is different oh, and you've saved my marriage, and so awesome, beautiful, beautiful ones yeah, and I'm very.

Speaker 1: 7:38

I genuinely believe I have the best job and I'm so fortunate to be able to do what I do and be allowed to do what I do, and I'm very grateful for it. But that is one client I would say, hand on my heart. I wish I could go back and say to her I wish I'd known more. It's not that I was negligent, it's not that I didn't try hard enough. I didn't know enough.

Speaker 2: 8:00

Yeah, Was she dealing with just male doctors?

Speaker 1: 8:03

No, no, no, no. She was dealing with a clinic locally and she was given support by other people, but she didn't have enough understanding of, she didn't have enough people fighting for her side, whereas now I know, now I'd be like right, download this. You know my free tracker, make sure that. No, that's not good enough. They're fobbing you off. Go and see this, this. And she got the help, but she didn't have enough behind her. She didn't have the understanding that I and I didn't give it to her because I didn't know. So it wasn't that I was negligent, it was like I didn't understand how it felt.

Speaker 1: 8:36

So, in answer to the question, from who was it? Claire? In answer to claire's question, this is really controversial, but I believe that male doctors I mean like obviously are excellent and they can give you all the advice on hormones. They can tell you how your body works as a woman. They can give you all the advice. They can give you everything to do with hormones and everything else. Can they tell you how it feels? Yeah, yeah, no, I get you. And because, and and you know I'm at risk of being cancelled can they tell you how it feels?

Speaker 1: 9:09

truly, no, no no it's not their fault, they just.

Speaker 1: 9:12

They don't and this is my point. You know I can't explain to you as a woman, as a young woman, right, so you, bless your heart, have endometriosis, okay, you, you can explain to a boyfriend or you can explain to a male friend what endometriosis feels like, what period pains feels like. You can you know, if somebody has reasonable medical knowledge, for example, what happens to a woman's body when they go through a period? They could physically, they could mentally understand kind of pain. But you'd have to say to them well, you know, when you have like pain, when you have diarrhea and you feel that kind of cramp, well, imagine that that would.

Speaker 1: 9:52

And you'd have to try and say it feels, imagine that you had this kind of pain and then you moved that pain to this part of your body and then it was like, not just for five minutes before you went to the loo, it was.

Speaker 1: 10:05

And you'd have to try and get them to imagine this plus this, plus this, plus this was, plus this. But then imagine that you can't sleep because of this and this and this. So then, and you'd have to try and get them to kind of piece it all together, yeah, and then say, and that happens for four days out the month, yeah, or five days out the month, and then, on top of that, imagine that you had food poison, and then do you know what I mean? And you're asking someone to put themselves in a situation where they have this symptom plus this symptom, plus this symptom, right, and then right, so imagine all that, yeah, and you have it 12 times a year, yeah, and it's never ending. And on top of that, you may have problems with fertility, and so you're asking them to put together this mental kind of picture, all these different symptoms plus mental symptoms, plus mental health symptoms, plus lack of sleep, plus, plus, and it's like how does that feel?

Speaker 2: 10:56

yeah, even in perimenopause. I'm not in that stage yet and I I'm getting it. I'm learning with everybody else and you're teaching me a lot, but I still won't get it until I'm in that stage fully yeah, I mean you're submerged in my world, yeah, where we talk about it, and so you're more knowledgeable than I'd say.

Speaker 1: 11:14

99.9 of 24 year olds yeah, I'm really proud of that. Yeah, yay, yay, to represent the millennials, right, but I'm a gen z are you a gen z?

Speaker 2: 11:24

yes, and I don't act like it, but I'm a gen z okay, okay anyway.

Speaker 1: 11:31

But you're, you're more knowledgeable than the vast majority and because you already have kind of gyne issues going on, you would already naturally empathize. But you can't imagine the mental health side. Now we can talk about the symptoms of perimenopause, as in um, the night sweats which are just throwing bamboo. I'm going to say it again. I've got to say every episode. It wouldn't be an episode without me saying bamboo pajamas, would? It really is the secret. It's not even. Oh, I didn't show you, sorry, I digress. We've got the most beautiful bamboo. I'm sorry, I've just gone off, digress. We've got the most beautiful bamboo. Sorry, I've just gone off on one. We've got the most beautiful bamboo, kind of long sleeved, kind of like high neck turtleneck oh gorgeous, oh gorgeous for winter. Okay, like they're in their reddit blouse. I know they're like turtleneck black, long sleeved, really slinky.

Speaker 2: 12:24

They just look great with the purchase I'm going out on thursday, can I have yeah?

Speaker 1: 12:27

yeah, you love them, so you're cool, they're gorgeous. Um, anyway, bamboo for the win, as always. But night sweats will really disrupt you. But you could understand night sweats. If you've had food poison, yeah, you can understand night sweats. But it's the mental health thing, it's how it feels. That I think, unless you've gone through it, I just don't think anyone could get it. The thing about perimenopause is the dead inside that makes me.

Speaker 1: 12:53

I hear that a lot and it saddens my heart honestly, it's like, and it's the one thing women feel guilty, it's the one thing that I, if I could wave a magic wand and take it away from women, it's the one thing I would remove. So if somebody said to me right, you're a fairy godmother, I mean, why not? You know, you are in a sense In a weird way. But if somebody said to me right, okay, you're the fairy godmother and you get one wish for women you get to remove one paramenopause symptom. That's a good one. Yeah, right, get to remove one paramenopause symptom. That's a good one. Yeah, right, if I get to remove one paramenopause symptom, which one would it be? I think it would be the dead inside one because you feel so guilty.

Speaker 1: 13:33

So, for example, let's say you're married or you're in a long-term relationship, you lose your libido, okay, and then you feel, but the thing is you feel really guilty because you still love that person, but if they, if they wanted to approach you and have sex or be intimate, you just literally can't. You love them and you look at them and you go this is a person that I love, but I also, if you come near me, I will, I will stab you. Yeah, and it's awful because you feel like that they're looking at you and they know, they know that you don't want to be intimate with them. Yeah, but it's not. But it's not personal, but but it's the most personal thing, yeah. Yeah, are you with me like it's the most personal thing, because it's like I don't want to have sex with you. Is that actually how it feels? Yeah, like I don't want to be anywhere near you, okay. Okay, because I'm dead inside.

Speaker 2: 14:25

Yeah, but you don't feel that way towards anyone, like you'd still feel that way towards everyone else, any other man, well, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 14:30

Okay, because I haven't like yeah, yeah, I'm not no offense, I'm not going around being no no I know it's just, but it's. But do you know what I mean? And it's like, but I love you, yeah, with all of my heart, but I just, I'm just dead, yeah, like I am just switched off?

Speaker 2: 14:48

is this where like this might be also a bit is this where affairs, when affairs happen and stuff?

Speaker 1: 14:52

some women have actually told me and this is an area of research that I'm actually going into because, okay, this is what I do.

Speaker 1: 14:59

this is who I am and this is why I'm looking at dosages of things like macaroon. So you know, I'm bringing out my own range of vitamins shameless plug. I'm looking at dosages of things like macaroot. So you know, I'm bringing out my own range of vitamins. Shame this plug. I'm looking at things like what are the maximum doses of macaroot. Looking at the uses of female testosterone to improve libido, but women have actually told me now get this one for sad. We're going off track a little bit, claire, just bear with me. Women have actually told me that they felt like they want to have an affair to test whether it's actually their libido is completely gone or whether it's just their libido with the husband. Wow, okay, mic drop. Yeah, that's the level of. Is it just I can't, I've lost my libido completely, or is it my libido in my long-term relationship? I kind of get that, yeah, but how sad is that Ooh.

Speaker 2: 15:45

Yeah, and that and I kind of get that, yeah, but how sad is that? Yeah, because why men also?

Speaker 1: 15:48

and then they feel rejected. So men will go around thinking, well, if I'm, if she's never going to want to have sex with me again, because then men will be thinking, well, is this coming back? Yeah, yeah, give me the answer. Yeah, and women are like, how would I know? Yeah, how would I know? That question right now I feel dead and women won't be able to voice this.

Speaker 1: 16:06

But then, like I feel dead and I feel guilty, I feel awful guilty, like women will tell me. I feel like I'm the worst person on the world, like I feel like I'm a horrible human because I see the pain in his eyes and I've done that, but it's not my fault. But I feel like it's my fault, like how horrid a human am I? And they'll tell me these things and they look to me and say what's the answer? And I go I don't know, because I don't know if it's coming back for you, darling. So this is why it can and also cannot. I know. This is why this is why that's the research. I'm looking at things like, yeah, please carry on that research.

Speaker 1: 16:42

I'm curious yes, you know, and this is my next area of research, because I'm here to be the guinea pig and here to do the research, because I feel like this is where we need to go next, looking at male testosterone, looking at things like you know, for people that don't want to go down the HRT route. I'm looking at, you know, looking at the maximum low dose of things like macaroon which can help, and the maximum low dose of things like macaroon which can help, and this is what I'm looking at next. Girls got lost today.

Speaker 2: 17:08

Yeah, you do To take one for the team though.

Speaker 1: 17:11

Yeah, but we'll practice it. Practicing that sounded really I don't know where that came from. How does a man understand all that Tell me? How does a man, how does a man, how can you take all that emotion and explain it to a man?

Speaker 2: 17:24

So the male doctors focused more on symptoms rather than how you feel. Symptoms hormones, how the biology works, yeah, rather than the mental part of it.

Speaker 1: 17:33

Yeah, but how do you understand how that soul hurt? How do you explain that to a man? That's number one. I feel like I've just done like half an hour on that, but it's really important to understand. So if you're not getting the hrt aspect, if you're not being heard in terms of the biology, yes, man can. A man can understand that. A man can definitely understand that if you are struggling psychologically, if you're studying, if you're struggling with the mindset of things, I don't think a man can help you.

Speaker 2: 18:01

It's not their fault and I don't not blaming them because it them, because I'm still wading through it.

Speaker 1: 18:08

I've written a book. I've written a best-selling book. I've written journals, I've written workbooks, I've written, you know, and I'm still going through, like I help women every day, like my whole life revolves around books, coaching you guys, yeah, you guys, hey. But my whole, my, my whole career is helping midlife women with their mindset, with their, with their thinking, with how their thinking is ordered or disordered, or, you know, helping them rewire their thinking and and become more positive, and it's my entire career. So how could a gp, a male gp, who, who is when perimenopause, is not mandatory training and they certainly don't have to go back and relearn the latest thinking or relearn the latest. That's a different. Yeah, that's a whole other podcast. No, that's something. So you can't expect them to be able to do it. Now, if you're not getting the answers from a male GP, it is your right to go and ask for a female GP If there isn't a female gp my favorite people to ask your nurse practitioners why you've told me they get.

Speaker 1: 19:10

They get it if you go and find female nurse. Why? Because the nurses are the people that deal with women's body parts. A nurse is the one that's going to give you a smear. All right, since you, since you reach your sexual ages and you go and have a smear, a woman, a nurse, is the one that's going to be talking to you about your sexual health, is going to be doing your smears, is going to be talking to you about contraception. They deal with that every single day of their lives. Yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 19:35

So they're actually more specialized.

Speaker 1: 19:37

I'm sorry, they are okay look the nurses seriously, I'm not having a go at gps not honestly but nurses are the ones that deal with these things. They deal with contraception, they deal with HRT. Like, if you want a real conversation, go and find your senior nurse practitioner, because the chances are they're going to be in their 40s or their 50s and logically then they're going to have these symptoms themselves. So that's why they'll get it.

Speaker 2: 20:03

So they'll get it, because you said that one in particular really helps. You, didn't you?

Speaker 1: 20:08

I mean, I've been through everything. They tested me for everything. I mean, bless their hearts. It was in lockdown and they tested me and tested me, and tested me, and I kept saying, is it hormones? And they were like no, it can't be hormones, you're too young for all of that. Do you know what I mean? No, no, I don't even. And they I mean they spent so much money as well which makes me feel really guilty?

Speaker 1: 20:31

Well, ironically, no, ironically it does. But they, they spent some testing for this and that and the immune disorders and Ramsey something syndrome and slapped face and all these weird things. And I went and saw a nurse and said could it be my hormone? She goes yeah, probably is give me hrt and that's that. Wow, good on her. And I saw one doctor who said I burst an adrum. He said I had no adrum and she looked at me when I can see it, what's he on about? It's like no, anyway. No, why did he think that? She didn't know? She just went, I don't know. She was like that's so random, very random anyway.

Speaker 1: 21:02

So go and ask for a senior nurse practitioner. Don't take no for an answer if you're not getting help and be your own advocate, yeah. And if you don't get the answers, if you go to your gp surgery and the only options available are middle-aged men who don't have any sympathy for you, go and ask to refer to your sexual health clinic or your family planning clinic at the hospital. It's worth, it's worth keeping on going and it's easier to see a nurse, isn't it? It's easy to see a nurse. Generally, you, you're more available for appointments. But even if you if you can't get any luck at your local gp surgery, ask for a referral to the hospital in the local town, whatever, you can ask for the referral. Yeah, I mean, you have to advocate for yourself, and don't you? The thing is that you have to be able to say this is what I want. I need a referral. I'm sorry, this isn't the answer that I'm looking for, and know your rights. Now there's NICE guidelines and I say this all the time NICE as in, not nice oh, isn't that lovely. Nice as in N-I-C-E guidelines guidelines, which is still how you spell nice, I know, but it's, but they're nice guidelines.

Speaker 1: 22:04

If you type in nice guidelines from menopause or perimenopause, they come up and you need to know what your rights are. And it is your right to see a different practitioner. Oh, so that tells you all your patient rights. Yes, that's pretty cool. Yeah, and you can. You, you know. It tells you that after the age of 45, for example, you don't have to be um tested and perimenopause and all these kind of things. So, yes, go and see somebody else. You, you do have that. You can do that. Yeah, that is, that is okay to do. You know, as I said, a male doctor should be able to prescribe you hrt should be able to talk you through. Hrt should be able to talk to you about the biology, the physiological symptoms of perimenopause.

Speaker 1: 22:45

But when it comes to the mindset, I mean not doing a shameless plug for our perimenopause membership, but that's what that kind of thing is there for.

Speaker 1: 22:53

That's why we have things like the perimenopause membership, because we talk all the time about you know, you'll see, because we have a Facebook group that goes with it. And somebody will say I saw a comment yesterday from one of our lovely members saying why is it okay that my husband gets to, for example, a shout out I'm not going to say the member because obviously that's confidential but why is it okay for my husband to complain when he's in a bad mood? But if I complain, it becomes a problem. And then some of the other women will say, well, yeah, my husband does the same. And somebody else will say you know, so it's a, it's a place where women feel safe to say is it okay if, or I've had this symptom today? Has anybody else had that? Always answer straight and that, yeah, and everybody will be there loving and supporting on each other, plus the resources plus the mindset stuff, and that's the point. Women supporting other women is a thing of beauty, because we get it.

Speaker 1: 23:45

Yeah yeah, and, yeah, yeah, literally I don't know what to say but yeah, yeah, and I think that's always the point with the mindset stuff. I know I didn't get it until I started game three and for that I feel really I wish I had done, and if I ever see her I will say to her I'm really, I'm really sorry that I didn't get it. It wasn't through anything other than and then, yeah, just an inability to understand. At that point have I answered the question?

Speaker 2: 24:10

I've forgotten what the question was now about male doctors and do they, do they understand? No, they don't understand. And should she request a female instead?

Speaker 1: 24:17

so yeah, you did, actually I just, I just thought I was just like, oh no, I just hope I haven't gone off on one. So, as always, if you have any questions, please do let us know. Gabriella and I are always here. Sorry, my brain. Gabriella and I are always here to answer your questions and do our best to make sure that this chapter in your life is as uncomplicated as possible. Take care, my darlings, and we will speak to you next week. Bye.