Navigating Perimenopause in the Workplace

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Welcome to the Uncomplicated Perimenopause Podcast . I'm Kate Grosvenor , your friendly perimenopause expert and life coach .

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And I'm Gabriella Kate's daughter , representing all the women who are nowhere near perimenopause but want to understand it better .

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Whether you're just starting your perimenopause journey deep into it , whether you're just starting your perimenopause journey deep into it or you're a loved one trying to support someone who is we've got you covered .

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We'll be answering all of your burning questions , exploring the ups and downs , and sharing expert advice and personal insights .

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So grab a cup of tea , get comfy and let's dive into the wonderful , sometimes wild , world of perimenopause together .

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And remember , no matter where you are on your journey , you are not alone .

Speaker 2 0:51

Welcome to the Uncomplicated Perimenopause . Hello , my darlings , and welcome to the Uncomplicated Perimenopause podcast . My name is Kate Grosvenor , I'm a perimenopause expert and life coach .

Speaker 1 1:07

I'm Gabriella Grosvenor , Kate's daughter , here to learn with you all .

Speaker 2 1:11

So , as always , my darlings , I hope you do . You know what , before I start , I hope you've had a lovely week . Have you had a lovely week ? We'd love to hear from you . We have a WhatsApp number you can message us on if you have any questions , but we also have a lovely , thriving paramenopause group on facebook . So if you , if you want to join in , if you've got any desire to join our community , please do feel free to find us on facebook . It's paramenopause with kate grovner and let us know how your week's been ?

Speaker 2 1:35

we would actually really love to know . So I hope you've had a fabulous week , but apart from that , as we always start off , what is my question for this week , please , my lovely , gorgeous daughter ?

Speaker 1 1:45

this is from Twilia and I'm so sorry if I'm mispronouncing that .

Speaker 2 1:49

I think it must be Twilia , how do you spell ?

Speaker 1 1:51

it . Pretty name , beautiful name t-w-i-l-i-a . That must be Twilia . Yeah , but it's beautiful . That's a gorgeous . I've never heard that name before . No , I don't think I have . She says she would love something to learn about communication with perimenopause at work . Lately her symptoms she's been struggling with her symptoms a lot at work .

Speaker 2 2:09

It's Tullio in our menopause group .

Speaker 1 2:12

Yeah , and the membership .

Speaker 2 2:13

Oh , I thought I was going to say I know that name . How are you doing darling ? So communication at work , yeah , and just how to deal with everything at work . Love that thing at work ? Yeah , love that . Okay , this is a good question because it perimenopause is still one of those things that people feel ashamed about talking about . It's almost like when we , when we talk about anything to do with the female reproduction system , we we almost digress into feeling like we're talking about periods to boys .

Speaker 1 2:38

Yeah , I promise you , it's almost like I can imagine this is kind of worse , maybe just describing it , because boys know a little bit about periods .

Speaker 2 2:46

Yes , it's like a secret yes , especially if you're in a position of management or position of power . It's almost like you don't want to tell people because you don't want to appear weak or fragile or vulnerable or less than . I don't know what Twilio does for a living off the top of my head , but it's one of those where you don't want to feel like you're going to be sidelined or seen that you can't cope and therefore passed over . I don't know for promotion or something , if you're seen that you're not coping or overwhelmed and we need to start learning to put that aside If all the women who hit 40 or 45 start acting like we are a kind of marginalized , not able , group , there's going to be a massive brain drain . And there is a massive brain drain . There is a huge amount of women who feel like we have to leave the workforce because we're not coping , rather than address the actual issue , which is perimenopausal . Women aren't being catered for , which is the actual issue that we're going to talk about today in some ways , and we need to discuss it , and this is a great question . Thank you so much , genuinely , for asking this , because we need to talk about what you should be talking about , how you should be talking about it , how you feel better at work , because we need to keep the amazing wisdom , knowledge and amazing workforce in the workplace . Because women who are 40 plus are great . We're not the workforce that's going to be disappearing off and having babies and we've got so much to offer . So they do need to keep us there to capitalize on what we know and how we cope with stuff . So , first and foremost , don't be ashamed . Don't be ashamed , okay , don't be ashamed of having this conversation . This is a very , very important conversation . It's your right to have this conversation . They need to help you address it . So they need to help you address it . They need , they need to let you know it's okay to have it .

Speaker 2 4:59

So it's very , very common in perimenopause to have a range of emotions , a range of symptoms , and we need to know that that's okay , all right . So you're not on . You're not on your own . If you're having a lot of symptoms , as you know , you're in my perimenopause membership , so you know that so many women are going through symptoms and and therefore , you know you're not on your own . So that's number one . So if you're having fatigue , if you're having mood swings , that's all of us . I'm like I'm having a parenteral brain moment myself .

Speaker 2 5:29

So number two , I think start small . It's kind of like we have to build up courage in order to have these conversations . So the temptation is to go in and start talking to our upline or our management and want to have that entire conversation in one go , like when you're talking to your mum about boys . So you want to go in and talk to her about all the things all at once and freak your mother out . So start small and gradually get into that conversation bit by bit is a good way to do it , so you don't have to have the entire conversation in one go . If you have a reasonable amount of trust and a reasonable amount of communication with your manager , start the conversation going , even if they're male it doesn't matter .

Speaker 2 6:20

Well , especially if they're male , I think . Yeah , you know the collagen that we produce . Obviously it's our favourite topic . The guy that I deal with in the company so we have Swedish collagen . It's the best in the world , in my opinion . And the guy that I deal with his wife has just had a baby . It's very cute . He is very cute , he's adorable and I'm teaching him all about perimenopause . His wife has just had a baby . She's not quite there yet , she's not anywhere near there yet , but he wants to know more . So we're having conversations . Every time he talks to me , he asks me more questions about perimenopause . He's curious now because he's like what is this thing that you're doing and what is it about it ? When , when you were in Egypt , you were teaching all your 20-odd-year-old male friends about perimenopause and they were genuinely interested .

Speaker 1 7:06

This is the thing we presume . It wasn't weird .

Speaker 2 7:09

I mean slightly weird , yeah , no , not gonna lie . Little bit weird , gabby .

Speaker 1 7:13

But they weren't icked out they weren't .

Speaker 2 7:15

No , they were like what is this thing that you're doing ? So we presume that our presumption ? Yeah , so let's go in with the attitude . How about this ? Let's go in with the attitude of . It isn't that they don't want to know , it's that they don't know . Start small and build it up . Let's not , you know , you don't need to tell them all of the things all at once . Yeah , you presumably have weekly conversations , monthly conversations . You can start small and build it up . That's number one open communication . I have conversations about it . Number two start thinking about practical strategies that you can use yourself to cope with work . So , for example , prioritize your tasks .

Speaker 2 8:02

I am quite okay in the mornings . I am absolute pants by the time it gets to three o'clock in the afternoon . I am so tired I have a slump . If you want to talk to me , don't talk to me after three o'clock . I'm okay again in the evenings , weirdly , but at three o'clock , because we have things in perimenopause like insulin resistance . Because we have things in perimenopause like insulin resistance , we have all kinds of fatigue symptoms , and so I struggle around the . I call it the nana nap hours , the what Nana nap , nana nap , yeah . The nana Nana as in grandmother , as in granny . Yeah , between the hours of kind of like three and four , I like that , I want to sleep and I'm not much use brain wise because I've I've literally switched off . So between the hours and three and four I genuinely could do with a nap .

Speaker 2 8:54

So if you're at work , don't do things that are heavy duty at the times when you're not coping and it's saying to yourself what are my most important priorities ? And let's be clear on this , what are my most important priorities . Other people come up to you with their urgent things , other people's things always urgent . Have you noticed ? I need to do this urgently . Can you urgently help me ? But what are your important things ?

Speaker 2 9:23

And doing your important things first as top priority , yeah , not just dropping everything for everybody else , it's your important things always need to get done first , and doing things that are important when your brain is at its best . Now there's a book called eat that frog or the frog . It's one of those two titles and it's really , really good because what it tells you to do is eat the frog in the morning , meaning do the most difficult thing you've got to do that day first thing , and then the rest of your day goes well . So if you know you've got a difficult client to answer , get it out of the way first , because if not , you're going to be thinking there all day going oh , I've got to go , I've got to answer that client back .

Speaker 2 10:04

Yeah , oh god , god , she's just gonna be awful . He's just gonna be so difficult . It's gonna impact your mental health for the whole day , whereas if you get it done first thing in the morning pick up the phone or email them , get it off your head , off your shoulders then the rest of the day is going to go easier . In perimenopauseause that's doubly true because we suffer from lack of energy , we're struggling with our energy levels , we're struggling with our mental health for all the kind of hormonal reasons and the neurotransmitters that we don't have abundance of . So let's get all the kind of crap out the way when our brain is at its best and prioritize what we need to do . Okay , we also need to take mindful breaks , okay , yeah .

Speaker 2 10:48

So I use a technique called the Pomodoro technique , where I actually have a . Have you seen on my , on my office desk ? There's like an egg timer . Yes , I'm ADHD as well . So I struggle with concentration for massive periods of time because my brain gets bored and then the squirrels come away and take its little nuts and and run off and do other more exciting things . So I have to . I can concentrate for about 45 minutes to an hour and then I need a break , and a mindful break for me is walking over to the other building and getting a cup of tea , going and playing with all the cats we have lots of cats and horses and stuff . So just having a 15 minute break , just playing with one of the animals and cuddling a kitten or yeah , and doing something like that , it's just mindful or having or meditating or just breathing in the fresh air or walking on the grass or something like that , where you just defrag , will really , really help women in perimenopause . Yeah , because the pressure builds up . So mindful break also is a really good idea .

Speaker 1 11:57

Just people take smoking breaks at work . You can take a A 10 minute mindfulness break , yeah yeah , absolutely .

Speaker 2 12:04

There's apps that I would recommend as well . So just to help you , keep you on track , so I use one called Asana . You know , my favorite is Asana . I use Asana , okay , why ? Why do I use Asana ? Why do you use Asana ? Because the unicorns go across the screen and they leave rainbows . I'm a child , I'm sorry they're rainbows . I'm a child , I'm sorry they're rainbows , they're cute . It's like the unicorns and the rainbows and the beavers leave kind of like rainbow trails across the screen and I think it's Sana will be in your next advert .

Speaker 2 12:35

They're pretty . Listen ClickUp and Monday and all those ones are really dull . And these things entertain me . I don't care . Listen . One of the secrets to life entertain your own brain . Life does not have to be boring . If something entertains you , do more of it , because nobody cares . Nobody's in your brain , are they ? Your brain's got enough shit going on , the crap that our own brain plays . I call it shit FM . As you know , it's a radio station that plays crap to you all day long . There's enough shit going on in your brain anyway . Nobody knows what's going on . So if asana entertains me , it's doing no harm to anybody else . You better work out , and so you . Oh , I'm sorry , you're supposed to be miserable at work but it's just .

Speaker 1 13:16

It's a funny thing to look out for right , so what ?

Speaker 2 13:19

we play you and I play music at work every day . Yeah , right , we have fun at work every . Yeah . We encourage the cats to come in if they want to . You encourage the cats to come in if they want to .

Speaker 1 13:29

I like cats .

Speaker 2 13:30

So what difference does it make ? This is funny . Okay , I'm just laughing at you .

Enhancing Workplace Support for Menopause

Speaker 2 13:35

If you could make the next hour of your life more exciting , why wouldn't you ?

Speaker 1 13:40

True .

Speaker 2 13:52

What are you going to do for the next hour to make it more exciting ? Well , I'm going to move the rug that's ruined . My next hour , I want to change rugs . I don't like the rug that's in in the studio . It's annoying me , it doesn't match the aesthetic , and I want to swap the rug that's in the dining room , because the rug in the dining room doesn't match the aesthetic and they they're in the wrong place and no one wants to help me move this rug , because they've been there for years and today .

Speaker 2 14:08

No , actually it was two days ago and it was three days ago and it was the week before that , and nobody wants to help me move it , so I'm going to move the sodding rug , just so I let you know .

Speaker 1 14:16

You're going to move the rug .

Speaker 2 14:17

We all are , exactly Because everybody loves me and wants to help Any , whether he loves me and wants to help anywho . So why not do something in the next hour that you find exciting , joyful , playful , loving , caring , peaceful , because you're never going to have that hour again . There's 1440 minutes in a day cool , I don't know that . There you go . Why not make the next 10 minutes lovely , or the next 20 minutes lovely , or do something for yourself ? Why does every minute have to be due ? I mean , I'm that person . If you ask me to do something , I'll do it . If you want help , I'll help you . We're going way off track , but make yourself have more fun . So if you have a workout , I'm trying to bring it back . Trying to bring it back . If you have a work app that entertains your brain while you're doing it , great . So back to topic , trying to rein it back in again . If you have a productivity app or a work app that helps you stay organized , all the better when you're in perimenopause , because you need that extra help to organize yourself , stay on track , make life more manageable , etc . Okay , went way off track . I do apologize . So use technology .

Speaker 2 15:28

Make other workplace adjustments . So , for example , better lighting . So I'm wearing my glasses today because my my eyes just hurt . Today I woke up with a headache . My eyes are hurting , I'm just wearing my glasses . So I need better lighting sometimes .

Speaker 2 15:43

So if work doesn't provide you with a light , go and talk to them . Say I need a better desk light . Research good desk lights . I have a desk light that goes at multiple angles so I can move it around my desk depending on where the natural light comes in . Talk to them about that . So if you need better lighting because your eyes are not doing as well as they used to talk to them it Maybe you need a more comfortable desk chair . I have a lumbar spine thing that goes on the back of my chair that supports my lumbar spine because I obviously 50 years old . My back isn't in as good nick as it was when I was 20 . Talk to them about those kind of things as well .

Speaker 2 16:19

Also , I would say , while you're at work , make sure you have external support as well , because although you're talking about work , work is not going to support you to the fullest extent . So always make sure you have external support as well . As temperature control is a really big thing . So you could either say to them . Can you provide me with a fan on my desk , or is it okay if I bring a fan in to work and have it on my desk ? If they won't provide you one , actually they should provide you with one , all other things being equal , but the worst case scenario is that you provide one .

Speaker 2 16:52

Now there are some very quiet fans and there are some noisier fans , so it depends on the environment that you work in . I have a Dyson fan on my desk . As you know , they're not cheap . The only reason I have a Dyson more than other fans is not because I particularly want to spend that huge amount of money on a fan because it was a budget , but it's because it's the only fan that I could use during video calls , because obviously I otherwise silent , isn't it ? Well , not silent , but it's the most , it's the least noisy of all fans , but you should be able to have a fan .

Speaker 2 17:21

There's also neck fans that you can get now . Oh , wow , yeah , so you can get a fan that goes around your neck and blows cool air onto your neck and that will help with hot flushes and stuff . Good , those , those are ones that I would wear at work if I were working in an environment , because that's the least I was going to say disruptive for other people . Not that you obviously need to necessarily your needs are important but it is not that disruptive to others . So you can get a neck fan , you can get a handheld fan , you can get a fan on your desk , so that's another consideration that you could look at you could also talk to them about . So these are all things that you can talk to them about . I would also say to them if it would be possible , for example , to bring awareness into work .

Speaker 2 18:06

So ask them what their policy is on awareness , or menopause training for the , for the company , or perimenopause training for the company . This is something that I do , so I will go into . I sometimes get hired for a half a day workshop or a day workshop and talk to the whole company , men included . This is not a woman only event . Sometimes I get hired to present it online . Sometimes I get hired to do it in the company . It's usually a half a day or a day . It's not normally a one hour thing , because it's very difficult to explain menopause in an hour , but it could be a half day workshop where I go in for two , three , four hours where we go and we talk about .

Speaker 2 18:46

I talked to him about perimenopause , I talked about menopause , the difference between the two , post-menopause and we do training for people and we explain to them what the symptoms are , including brain fog , including people's additional needs during this time , what the effects are physically Because when people understand that it affects your obviously it's your estrogen , your progesterone and your testosterone the impacts all over your body , the impacts on your brain , the impacts on your fatigue levels , how it affects every single receptor cell in your body , they understand the kind of totality you know of the impact . They kind of go , oh shit , and then the penny drops how difficult it is to deal with . And it's really , really important because , even if it doesn't affect the men , it affects their colleagues , it affects their mothers , it affects their wives , it affects , you know , so many people . It's some men are not great at dealing with their wives in perimenopause , but some men are really desperate to understand , really really desperate to understand , because they feel like if they just knew the answers they'd be able to help , because they've seen their wives by extremes .

Speaker 2 19:56

I have it is a good idea . What else ? So you can ask them because they

Corporate Inclusivity for Menopause

Speaker 2 20:00

should . Bigger companies will have a policy on inclusivity and menopause and perimenopause should be in that policy and if it's not , you can kind of suggest it and say to them could we have some training on it ? Again , it could be online , it could be pre-recorded . I have a package where people just they can buy the pre-recorded version , which is the lowest common denominator , but at least then they can . They can have a pre-recorded package with worksheets so that anybody that wants access to training can have it . If you're interested in that , by the way , you can just email me and I can quote the company for that to have access to that . It's better done live .

Speaker 2 20:37

But some companies like , yeah , yeah , well , they're not that interested , but at least there is that yeah there is that available and it comes with awareness and sensitivity training so they get to know the information , but they're also given awareness and sensitivity training at the same time . Yeah , so they're not to bring attention to women . They're having hot flashes if a woman has a fan and she's using it in a in a meeting , not to bring attention to it , not to make jokes about it , because they give it . You know some books , they will . I've heard it . Yeah , and another thing that would be good to discuss is flexi hours . Yeah , so , yeah , but again , flexi hours are available if a woman , for example , is has little children and in per perimenopause , as I said , I pass it three o'clock in the afternoon .

Speaker 2 21:29

I am tired . So sometimes , for example in perimenopause , it might be a thing that you work up until like three and that you would carry on work from home later on in the afternoon or into the evening . Some people will allow you to do so . It's worth the question this one's a weird one that I have a suggestion for access to quiet working space . Okay , I get what you mean . Yeah , so in perimenopause , not all women , but some women can become hypersensitive . I'm one of those women , but also I'm on the spectrum , so I can sometimes not concentrate if people are talking around me . I'm high . I became hypersensitive to smell and hypersensitive to sound in perimenopause . So if somebody is talking or joking or laughing and I have a headache or I have just I'm tired that day , I really don't do well , I can't concentrate because my concentration , because of the brain fog , is intermittent some days . So if somebody's like having a jolly conversation about nothing to do with work , yeah , so some , and headaches are a thing .

Speaker 2 22:47

So if that is something that happens to you , it might be just saying permission to go use , for example , a meeting room . If the meeting room isn't booked out , can you go and and work in the meeting room if nobody else is using it ? Yeah , that's not a big ask . For example , if you work in a reasonably big company and they have three , four meeting rooms , it's getting permission to just to take your laptop and go and work in a quiet space if nobody else is using it . Yeah , yeah , there's no harm in that , I think , but it depends on company policy , obviously . Yeah , okay , this again , I don't think it's a big issue . Okay , but that's the me thing .

Speaker 2 23:29

I think you should be allowed time off for medical appointments and physio appointments . So , for example , some women in perimenopause would require physio or massage or acupuncture or something you know . In my book , shameless plug , the uncomplicated guide to perimenopause , I talk a lot about using a range of treatments . So helping yourself at home , helping yourself with mixing and matching . So some hrt , some acupuncture , some aromatherapy , some nutrition , you know kind of mixing and matching .

Speaker 1 24:08

A bit I get that , if they can , but I so agree . I think that should be . You can't not take time off to go to . You need to go to the doctors , you need to go to visit , you need all these things yeah , I think that should be allowed during working hours if you're in perimenopause .

Speaker 2 24:23

um , I was listening on the radio the other day that they're introducing a new medication that will be available to some women and , as I said , I haven't had time to research it yet and you know I'm like with my research that there's some medication that they're going to bring out that will help women with their bone density in menopause . They bring it out in the UK . Yes , I need to research that . Yeah , that'd be so cool because it'll help with osteoporosis . I can help with that .

Speaker 1 24:50

women will need fewer hip replacements in the future something that can just get prescribed , or do you need ?

Speaker 2 24:54

to buy it . Okay . No , it would be prescribed in the nhs , so that's really , really exciting . But again , if you're gonna go for treatment , you should be able to have time off from work . So I think you have to have a combination of courage and vulnerability . Courage and vulnerability are two sides of the same coin . You can't be courageous without being vulnerable .

Speaker 1 25:17

Yeah .

Speaker 2 25:18

Courage is not the absence of fear . Courage is knowing that there's fear , but doing it anyway . You see , the fear it's not like . It's not like . It's not there , and sometimes we have to be the first . So you have to be the first woman in your company that that stands up and says we need to do something about this . Yeah , you have to be the first one in your company . You have to be the first one in your family . You have to be the first one in the company group . You have to be the pioneer . You have to be the instigator for change . You have to be the the one that stands up and makes a difference .

Speaker 2 25:57

Yeah , should you be worth it it is worth it , and you shouldn't be the first , because this should be already in the company policy , but maybe you are . So it's worth it because every woman that comes after you will benefit from that change as well . And we need more women to stand up and say , hey , listen , there's a whole group of us We'll go through perimenopause . Yeah , 51% of the world population . I like that . One more . Yeah , why not ? Right ? We are slightly more in the majority , okay , like there were more . Yeah , why not ? Right ? We ? We are slightly more in the majority , okay . So we all need to band together and change what's going on . We all need to know that together we rise . You know my personal philosophy the special place in heaven for women , yeah , that help other women . So the more conversations we have , the more people that are aware of it , the more policy changes we implement , everybody benefits .

Speaker 2 26:54

If you can go to your boss and the board of directors and whoever creates policies change , go to the HR director . If you get no joy from your boss , go talk to HR . Human resources are there for the well-being of employees . They legally have to listen . It is , it is fact , and there's so many companies now that in order for them to . Quite frankly I'm going to be really honest in order for them to win awards , in order for them to be compliant with the government , in order for them to work with the government , if they want to , they have to have inclusivity policies . Inclusivity policies are not just about race , they're also about gender . Yeah , in order for them to be compliant about gender , they have to include all policies to do with gender . Perimenopause is part of gender .

Speaker 1 27:47

You have to hire a certain amount of women , don't you ?

Speaker 2 27:49

yes , but you also have to make women welcome , and that's not just , you know , having tampons in the toilet . That's also about women of our age . So it's it's a good idea . As I say , we need to instigate change and I'm a big advocate of that . So if you need my help , if you need any data , you need any statistics , do feel free to reach out and talk to me . You can email me . I think the email's underneath but it's kate at kategrovercom .

Speaker 2 28:13

I do want to to help and I do want to instigate more change in this . If you want to reach out and help and want me to come into your company and do some training , or you want your hr director to reach out and and book some training with me , you can also use the same email . Okay , and there's details in the show notes as well for the perimenopause membership . If you want to come hang out with us and learn more for your own self , then I want to be around a group of women that talk all about perimenopause and just you don't want to feel alone with it . That talk all about perimenopause and just you don't want to feel alone with it . Let us know .

Speaker 2 28:52

I think that's pretty much answered the question for today . So thank you so much for listening , as always , tulia . Thank you so much for your question , my darling girl . If you have any questions , you know what to do and we will speak to you again next week . All right , my darlings , thank you so much for listening . Bye , thanks for joining us today on the uncomplicated perimenopause podcast . We hope you found this episode helpful and inspiring , don't ?

Speaker 1 29:20

forget . If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover , you can reach out through our perimenopause group or on whatsapp for more information on my coaching perimenopause group or on whatsapp .

Speaker 2 29:29

For more information on my coaching , perimenopause supplements , books or upcoming events , please visit wwwkategrovernercom and if you've enjoyed today's episode , please subscribe , rate and review our podcast .

Speaker 1 29:42

It really helps us reach more listeners , just like you .

Speaker 2 29:44

Until next time remember , perimenopause doesn't have to be complicated . We're here to help you every step of the way stay uncomplicated .